Budget — Consideration by Estimates Committees

Sue Lines

Senator Faruqi, Senator Cash was also standing, so she gets precedence.

Michaelia Cash

I seek leave to move a motion relating to the reinstatement of cross-portfolio Indigenous matters hearings as circulated.

Leave not granted.

Well, here we go again, colleagues. Seriously! Mr Albanese, the Prime Minister of Australia, through his representatives—

Sue Lines

Senator Cash, you need to move the suspension motion.

Michaelia Cash

I move the motion. And, as I was saying, Mr Albanese, through his representatives in the Australian Senate, treats this place, quite frankly, as a shop floor. They run it as if they are the big union and we are a small business.

Sue Lines

Sorry, Senator Cash. Senator McAllister, you're on your feet.

Jenny McAllister

I'm unclear about the motion that Senator Cash is moving.

Sue Lines

It's a suspension motion. Senator Cash sought leave. Leave wasn't granted, and so Senator Cash has now moved a suspension.

I'm sorry, Senator Cash. I think Senator McKim is—

Nick McKim

No, sorry.

Sue Lines

Senators, I'm trying to give Senator Cash a fair go. If you're not objecting, please don't stand. Senator Hanson-Young?

Sarah Hanson-Young

I'm wondering whether there is a copy of the original—

An honourable senator interjecting—

It hasn't been circulated.

Sue Lines

It's been circulated electronically, and I believe it's being circulated as we speak. Third time lucky, Senator Cash.

Michaelia Cash

Pursuant to contingent notion of motion standing in my name, I move:

That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me from moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely a motion to give precedence to a motion related to the reinstatement of cross-portfolio Indigenous matters.

Here we go again. This is a government that will do everything, particularly in partnership with the Australian Greens, to shut down questions. This is not leadership. This is arrogance—nothing more and nothing less—contempt for the parliament and contempt for the Australian people. When a prime minister deliberately shuts down scrutiny, he is not just silencing senators. We are actually here representing our states. We are here representing the Australian people. We are here on their behalf asking questions in relation to one of the biggest portfolio expenditure items on the government's agenda.

I have to say that I'm very disappointed with Labor, and, in particular, with the hypocrisy of the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Wong. Senator Wong is always ready to lecture the coalition and even Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa-Price on what she should think and say on Indigenous issues. Yet, when the government are pushed to vote on a matter, in relation to whether or not we should proceed with Indigenous affairs cross-portfolio matters, they shut it down as fast as they can.

Senator Wong, as the Leader of the Government in the Senate, is happy and quick with the pontification, quick with the sanctimony and quick to tell others about how their views are legitimate or illegitimate. But when it comes to real accountability—that is what Senate estimates is; it's the one opportunity that we on the opposition benches get to actually question the government about their programs—and when it comes to facing hard questions about the failures of Indigenous service delivery and the outcomes on the ground for children, families and communities, suddenly Senator Wong and her counterparts fall silent. They go further than that. They're not silent; they actually vote to remove the ability of the Australian Senate and the opposition to ask questions in relation to this portfolio. Labor are happy to talk down any of those who dare to disagree.

With what they did last week, they have now shown the Australian people they will not front up to scrutiny on the facts. That is the real display that is on show here. Every family in Australia pays their taxes. Every community that depends on outcomes, in this important portfolio in particular, and every citizen who expects honesty from their government expects the opposition and those on the crossbench to hold the government to account in relation to these portfolio issues. Mr Albanese and the government, teaming up with the Greens—don't even start me on the Australian Greens and their hypocrisy. If they ever speak on Indigenous matters again, Senator Liddle, they deserved to be closed down immediately. Quite frankly, they're happy to leave this place, run out to the press and do a press conference, but when they come in here, they're happy to ensure that no questions are asked in relation to what is actually going on in Indigenous communities.

This is the attitude of Mr Albanese. This is it in 2025, everybody. You got a majority; yes, you did, but guess what? Answers still matter. Accountability still matters. Your ministers still need to front up and open the books and let us ask questions. But, for Mr Albanese, this is the way the Australian parliament now runs. He has told the Australian people that their right to answers does not matter. That is a sign of contempt, pure and simple—nothing more and nothing less There is the opportunity now for the government to say: 'Guess what? We know that accountability is not a slogan. We know that it's the lifeblood of democracy.' Estimates is the cornerstone of that accountability. When governments fear questions, they fear the people who ask them. When the Senate demands scrutiny, it serves the people who sent us here. So let's all vote for scrutiny.

Katy Gallagher

The government will not be supporting the suspension or the motion that's being moved by Senator Cash. I think it says a lot that the first item of business today demonstrates that the opposition is unable to actually work with the customs and norms of this place to resolve some of these issues.

Michaelia Cash

You trashed them!

Katy Gallagher

Well, no, Senator Cash. This is all about the way the opposition behaves and the fact that you are on a fast track to having zero influence in how issues are managed in this chamber. The Senate agreed to the sitting pattern earlier this term; I think it was earlier this year. It was agreed to. That set out the supplementary estimates week and was agreed to. Subsequent to this, there was a desire to have additional estimates days, which have been provided. We've provided an additional four days from 1 to 4 December—so a full additional week. There will be more estimates days this year because of the decisions the Senate took last week. The government is more than happy to front up and go through an additional week—not that you would understand that judging by the presentation of the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate just before.

Anne Ruston

Don't be condescending!

Sue Lines

Order!

Katy Gallagher

I'm sure Senator Ruston might be given the opportunity to say a few words, if she's given permission by her party, rather than interjecting on everything I say. Get your five minutes and speak to it.

On the matter, I do appreciate the opposition's interest in Closing the Gap and cross-portfolio day. It is this government's view that it is every minister's responsibility and every department's responsibility to be accountable for the work that they are doing on Closing the Gap. It should be part of every committee's hearing, which is why there are an additional three days, Senator Cash, for you to pursue Closing the Gap through Legal and Constitutional Affairs, through F&PA, through Economics, through Community Affairs, through Rural and Regional and through Education and Employment—all of those. You name it. Turn up and ask the questions over the entire allocation of estimates. This new-found interest by the Leader of the Opposition—

Honourable senators interjecting—

The

Order! Senator Cash was heard in silence. That same respect needs to be shown to Minister Gallagher. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher

Now, we believe, Closing the Gap is not the Minister for Indigenous Affairs' responsibility. It is not.

Honourable senators interjecting—

It is one of her responsibilities. It is the entire government's responsibility to ensure that we are making progress against closing the gap.

Michaelia Cash

That's a great video!

Sue Lines

Order!

Katy Gallagher

Senator Cash, you're after a video. We're actually about closing the gap and pursuing it through all of the committees. The Minister for Indigenous Affairs leads that work, but all of us have responsibility. I have responsibility for Closing the Gap in my portfolio. The Minister for Health and Ageing has responsibility for Closing the Gap in his portfolio. It is the view of the government that, in addition to providing extra estimates days for the first week of December, after this parliament was due to rise, we can have another full week of estimates. If Senator Cash and her colleagues want to pursue any matter through those committees, that is open to them on those four additional days. This is in addition to the normal scheduling of supplementary budget estimates. We do not believe that cross-portfolio day is the only day that you can ask questions about the Murray-Darling. We think you should be able to ask questions about the Murray-Darling through the scheduled sitting days, and it's the same for Closing the Gap. Those matters can and should be pursued through individual committees, where ministers are responsible for them—and the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, of course, leads that work. The result of last week is that we have an extra estimates week, Senator Cash, so all of your arguments about transparency and all of that are just nonsense because there are extra estimates days.

You may not want to work on those days, or to come for that extra week, but you can be guaranteed the government will be here, ready and willing to answer all of the questions.

Kerrynne Liddle

Here's a bit of truth-telling: cross-portfolio day is a day to interrogate these critical issues. The Northern Territory, right now, is the worst performing place for your policies and their impact on Indigenous Australians. You have three members in this parliament from the Northern Territory. There have been 17 years of cross-portfolio estimates work, and you decide, when we're seeing the greatest failure in Indigenous Australians' portfolio areas, to axe the cross-portfolio days. It is bad enough that that day is truncated. For people out there in the Australian community: Indigenous Australians cross-portfolio day starts at 9 am and is over by 5 pm—unlike days for the other portfolio days, that sometimes go until 10 o'clock at night. They used to go to 11 o'clock. It is truncated across so many different areas. So many people come in that we can't get to them all, so eventually they have to go home.

This Labor government is actually about announcements, not accountability, and there's certainly no transparency in removing the cross-portfolio day. This is at a time when we see closing the gap going in the wrong direction—not just going in the wrong direction; going in the wrong direction under Labor's watch. Since 2022 youth detention is up 11 per cent, suicide is up 9.4 per cent, adult incarceration is up 3.4 per cent, preschool attendance is down 2.6 per cent, and 1.2 per cent fewer children are commencing school developmentally on track. I think that calls for greater scrutiny. I think that calls for greater time, not less time and not less opportunity. It calls for practical action over symbolism. It calls for action over announcements. It calls for greater scrutiny not just of the Labor government, its policies and how they've contributed to this terrible outcome but also of the bureaucrats and the programs that are delivered.

Recently I travelled to regional and remote Western Australia and the Northern Territory, visiting the Kimberley, Darwin and Katherine—that includes Broome, Wyndham and Kununurra—and I saw and heard of countless examples of the duplication of services where there is desperate need, and of programs that aren't delivering any change for Indigenous Australians. ORIC itself, the regulator, came out and defended the 1,254 Indigenous organisations that have failed to meet their reporting obligations for the 2023-24 financial year. That's under your watch, Labor. You've failed to enforce mandatory minimum requirements under the Indigenous procurement policy, the coalition's landmark Indigenous procurement policy for government contracts. That's your handiwork, Labor. What are you trying to cover up? According to the ANAO, only one in five government contracts is monitored for compliance with the IPP, and only one-quarter of those are compliant. You need to answer those questions.

The Prime Minister held events spruiking his Indigenous economic empowerment agenda—of course, largely consulting with people who've spent most of their lives in the public sector or in organisations that are paid for by the government purse. We didn't see anywhere near enough private sector companies or representatives, even though two-thirds of the people running successful Indigenous businesses are not even part of Supply Nation. This is under your watch.

When there are record insolvencies in this country and Indigenous businesses are struggling, we want to know what you've done and are doing to help them—not coming up with the next grand, big idea of economic development. The four targets going in the wrong direction are not actually about that. We want to talk about what you are doing about the drivers for those four targets. What you did on Friday actually made sure there is less capacity for scrutiny. Shame on you.

Long debate text truncated.